Comments on: Why Spaghetti Is Not Tasty: Architecting Full-Scale Swing Apps http://www.jasperpotts.com/blog/2007/05/why-spaghetti-is-not-tasty-architecting-full-scale-swing-apps/ Jasper Potts's Blog on Java and Life Mon, 06 Oct 2008 14:11:17 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.2 By: Neil Bartlett http://www.jasperpotts.com/blog/2007/05/why-spaghetti-is-not-tasty-architecting-full-scale-swing-apps/#comment-513 Neil Bartlett Thu, 17 May 2007 19:55:49 +0000 http://www.jasperpotts.com/blog/2007/05/why-spaghetti-is-not-tasty-architecting-full-scale-swing-apps/#comment-513 Hi Jasper, Thanks for the link to my EclipseZone article! I wish I could have been at JavaOne this year, but I blew my conference-attending budget on EclipseCon. I'm also interested in collaborating with you on SPAR, although I do agree with Augusto's comment that it's starting to look like there are too many RCP frameworks out there. Look at the confusion caused by the proliferation of web frameworks in Java, for example. On the other hand "one framework to rule them all" is also not the best approach... it's good to have a choice between SWT and Swing, at least. It's possible that Spring Rich Client will transition to an OSGi-based framework, as Rod Johnson and the other guys are Interface 21 are strong supporters of OSGi. Unfortunately the lead developer of Spring RC very tragically developed throat cancer recently, and so there is not a lot of active development going on there at the moment. Regards Neil Hi Jasper,

Thanks for the link to my EclipseZone article! I wish I could have been at JavaOne this year, but I blew my conference-attending budget on EclipseCon.

I’m also interested in collaborating with you on SPAR, although I do agree with Augusto’s comment that it’s starting to look like there are too many RCP frameworks out there. Look at the confusion caused by the proliferation of web frameworks in Java, for example. On the other hand “one framework to rule them all” is also not the best approach… it’s good to have a choice between SWT and Swing, at least.

It’s possible that Spring Rich Client will transition to an OSGi-based framework, as Rod Johnson and the other guys are Interface 21 are strong supporters of OSGi. Unfortunately the lead developer of Spring RC very tragically developed throat cancer recently, and so there is not a lot of active development going on there at the moment.

Regards
Neil

]]> By: jasper http://www.jasperpotts.com/blog/2007/05/why-spaghetti-is-not-tasty-architecting-full-scale-swing-apps/#comment-492 jasper Wed, 16 May 2007 18:44:32 +0000 http://www.jasperpotts.com/blog/2007/05/why-spaghetti-is-not-tasty-architecting-full-scale-swing-apps/#comment-492 David: unfortunately I don't think they were recording the JavaOne sessions. Michael: The source code is available though subversion at the java.net project site: https://spar.dev.java.net/source/browse/spar/trunk/code/ David: unfortunately I don’t think they were recording the JavaOne sessions.

Michael: The source code is available though subversion at the java.net project site: https://spar.dev.java.net/source/browse/spar/trunk/code/

]]> By: Michael Bushe http://www.jasperpotts.com/blog/2007/05/why-spaghetti-is-not-tasty-architecting-full-scale-swing-apps/#comment-490 Michael Bushe Wed, 16 May 2007 17:26:25 +0000 http://www.jasperpotts.com/blog/2007/05/why-spaghetti-is-not-tasty-architecting-full-scale-swing-apps/#comment-490 Hi Jasper, Great talk - as far as I can tell from the slides. That's a great angle you took on SPAR (what does it stand for?). I've been interested in combining modules and IoC for Swing for some time, and OSGi and I agree Spring are the best candidates (though I wonder how Google's JUICE compares). This is the way to go for Swing, I like your analogy of "what's good for the server might be good for the client too." Server code used to be served with marinara, client code still often is. I'm also a big fan EventBuses - in fact I have an open source project called the EventBus at http://eventbus.dev.java.net. I'm interested in collaborating with you on SPAR, I'll contact you through the project site. I don't see any files available on java.net, where can we look at it? Michael Bushe Hi Jasper,

Great talk - as far as I can tell from the slides. That’s a great angle you took on SPAR (what does it stand for?). I’ve been interested in combining modules and IoC for Swing for some time, and OSGi and I agree Spring are the best candidates (though I wonder how Google’s JUICE compares). This is the way to go for Swing, I like your analogy of “what’s good for the server might be good for the client too.” Server code used to be served with marinara, client code still often is. I’m also a big fan EventBuses - in fact I have an open source project called the EventBus at http://eventbus.dev.java.net.

I’m interested in collaborating with you on SPAR, I’ll contact you through the project site.

I don’t see any files available on java.net, where can we look at it?

Michael Bushe

]]> By: David http://www.jasperpotts.com/blog/2007/05/why-spaghetti-is-not-tasty-architecting-full-scale-swing-apps/#comment-460 David Mon, 14 May 2007 15:05:38 +0000 http://www.jasperpotts.com/blog/2007/05/why-spaghetti-is-not-tasty-architecting-full-scale-swing-apps/#comment-460 This looks like a fascinating talk. I'm sorry I couldn't be there. Looking at your first few slides, I see architectures I've developed for various Swing apps I've created. Is there any chance the audio for this presentation will be available at some point? Thanks. This looks like a fascinating talk. I’m sorry I couldn’t be there. Looking at your first few slides, I see architectures I’ve developed for various Swing apps I’ve created.

Is there any chance the audio for this presentation will be available at some point? Thanks.

]]> By: Augusto http://www.jasperpotts.com/blog/2007/05/why-spaghetti-is-not-tasty-architecting-full-scale-swing-apps/#comment-428 Augusto Sat, 12 May 2007 02:44:28 +0000 http://www.jasperpotts.com/blog/2007/05/why-spaghetti-is-not-tasty-architecting-full-scale-swing-apps/#comment-428 Jasper, congratulations on a very successful presentation, and thanks for spending some time with some of us later to compare notes, discuss the issues, and whine a bit about Java framework overload! :-) I'm looking forward to checking your framework, the ideas you presented are the exact issues we've been dealing in *all* our user interfaces (not just Java UIs) and your talk validated a lot of the conceptual designs we're promoting in my company. I do think the community needs to have a very honest discussion about the state of the current frameworks for desktop Java. We have Eclipse, Netbeans, Swing app framework, Spring RCP, and others ... and while choice is good I think we need something like the app framework but that addresses the modularity and scalability issues present in a complex app. I think the current app framework is a good start, but I'm concerned it has nothing to do with Netbeans RCP and I don't get a good sense that there's a long term plan to scale the framework. Jasper, congratulations on a very successful presentation, and thanks for spending some time with some of us later to compare notes, discuss the issues, and whine a bit about Java framework overload! :-)

I’m looking forward to checking your framework, the ideas you presented are the exact issues we’ve been dealing in *all* our user interfaces (not just Java UIs) and your talk validated a lot of the conceptual designs we’re promoting in my company.

I do think the community needs to have a very honest discussion about the state of the current frameworks for desktop Java. We have Eclipse, Netbeans, Swing app framework, Spring RCP, and others … and while choice is good I think we need something like the app framework but that addresses the modularity and scalability issues present in a complex app. I think the current app framework is a good start, but I’m concerned it has nothing to do with Netbeans RCP and I don’t get a good sense that there’s a long term plan to scale the framework.

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